Brazil Crisis Deepens, Evidence Mounts of Plot to Oust Rousseff
Democracy Now
HAVANA TIMES – A key figure in Brazil’s interim government has resigned after explosive new transcripts revealed how he plotted to oust President Dilma Rousseff in order to end a corruption investigation that was targeting him.
The transcripts, published by Brazil’s largest newspaper, Folha de São Paulo, document a conversation in March, just weeks before Brazil’s lower house voted in favor of impeaching President Rousseff.
Romero Jucá, who was then a senator but became a planning minister after Rousseff’s ouster, was speaking with a former oil executive, Sérgio Machado. Both men had been targets of the so-called Car Wash investigation over money laundering and corruption at the state-controlled oil firm Petrobras.
In the conversation, the men agree that ousting President Rousseff would be the only way to end the corruption probe. In the transcript, Jucá said, “We have to change the government so the bleeding is stopped.” Machado then reportedly said, “The easiest solution is to put Michel in”—a reference to Vice President Michel Temer, who took power once Rousseff was suspended.
We speak to Maria Luisa Mendonça, director of Brazil’s Network for Social Justice and Human Rights.
TRANSCRIPT
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We begin today’s show with the political crisis engulfing Brazil. On Tuesday, the country’s interim president, Michel Temer, unveiled a raft of economic austerity measures and introduced a far-reaching constitutional amendment limiting the growth of public spending to the equivalent of the previous year’s inflation. Temer reportedly is now focused on overhauling Brazil’s pension system, but two of the country’s largest unions have refused to participate in talks, saying they don’t recognize the interim government. Temer has also called for the immediate abolition of funds created to channel oil revenues into education initiatives. On Tuesday, he addressed a meeting of the Brazilian congressional party leaders.
INTERIM PRESIDENT MICHEL TEMER: [translated] Public spending is on an unsustainable path. We can delight ourselves in one or the other conquests, but further down the line we will have condemned the Brazilian people to extraordinary difficulties.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, a key figure in Brazil’s interim government has resigned after explosive new transcripts revealed how he plotted to oust President Dilma Rousseff in order to end a corruption investigation that was targeting him. The transcripts, published by Brazil’s largest newspaper, Folha de São Paulo, document a conversation in March, just weeks before Brazil’s lower house voted in favor of impeaching President Rousseff. Romero Jucá, who was then a senator but became a planning minister after Rousseff’s ouster, was speaking with a former oil executive, Sérgio Machado. Both men have been targets of the so-called Car Wash investigation over money laundering and corruption at the state-controlled oil firm Petrobras.
In the conversation, the men agree that ousting President Rousseff would be the only way to end the corruption probe against them. In the transcript, Jucá says, “We have to change the government so the bleeding is stopped.” Machado then reportedly said, “The easiest solution is to put Michel in”—a reference to Vice President Michel Temer, who took power once Rousseff was suspended. Writing for The Intercept, journalist journalist Glenn Greenwald said, quote, “The transcripts provide proof for virtually every suspicion and accusation impeachment opponents have long expressed about those plotting to remove Dilma from office.” On Monday, Romero Jucá said his comments were taken out of context, but announced he would temporarily step down as the planning minister.
Well, for more, we’re going to Berkeley, California, where we’re joined by Maria Luisa Mendonça. She is the director of Brazil’s Network for Social Justice and Human Rights. She is also a professor in the International Relations Department at the University of Rio de Janeiro. Her recent piece for The Progressive is called “Brazil’s Parliamentary Vote is a Coup.”
Maria Luisa Mendonça, welcome to Democracy Now!
MARIA LUISA MENDONÇA: Thanks very much.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what’s happening and the significance of these audiotapes?
MARIA LUISA MENDONÇA: Yes. They actually see and prove very clearly something we have been saying from the beginning, that this is a coup, because there is no reason, no legal basis, for the impeachment of President Dilma, that the main reason to do this was to actually stop investigations of corruption. And it was clear from the beginning, because the interim president, Michel Temer, appointed seven ministers that are now facing charges of corruption. And also one of the first things he did was to eliminate the Controladoria-Geral da União, which is a state agency that controls contracts between the government and private businesses. So it was clear that it was a way to stop investigations of corruption. And then, the second main reason was to implement austerity measures in the right-wing agenda that has been rejected by Brazilian society since 2002. So, the right-wing forces have not been able to win elections. The only way for them to take power was by orchestrating the coup.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And could you talk, as well, about his elimination of all these other ministers that deal with social issues within the—within the government?
MARIA LUISA MENDONÇA: Yes, exactly. Just a few hours after taking power, he eliminated the Ministries of Women, of Agricultural Development, of Human Rights and Racial Equality, of Culture, of Communications. So, it was a huge structural change, with very serious consequences. And for instance, the Ministry of Culture is an institution that promotes Brazilian culture all over the world. So you cannot justify that by any argument, even economics. It doesn’t make any sense. Since then, there have been huge demonstrations. Just over the weekend, this past weekend, several office buildings have been occupied by artists. At least in 20 states, the offices of the Ministry of Culture are now occupied. And we have seen huge concerts with demonstrations against Michel Temer. And even in stadiums, in soccer stadiums, we are seeing demonstrations all over the country. So it’s very clear that this agenda will be rejected.
Also, for instance, in the case of the Ministry of Women, there now is a secretary. It lost its status as a ministry. Michel Temer invited five women, academics and artists, that rejected the invitation. So I think it’s actually interesting to see that no woman wants to be part of the new government, which is a positive sign considering what this government looks like. And just yesterday, finally, he found someone for that position, and it’s a former congresswoman who is herself being accused of corruption.
In the case of the communications, the public communications system is actually very concerning. Just a few hours after taking power, Temer fired the head of the public broadcasting system in Brazil and replaced him with an executive from TV Globo, the very powerful network that is calling for demonstrations against the government for over a year right now. So, that is a huge change. Imagine if suddenly the head of NPR was replaced by a Fox News executive. That’s a comparison that we can make. So he eliminated several very important public institutions.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And you mentioned Globo. What has been the role of the mass media, of the commercial media, as all these events have been unfolding?
MARIA LUISA MENDONÇA: Yeah, that is a key role. What we—I have been saying that—imagine if here in the U.S. all TV stations were like Fox News, and they all started to call for demonstrations against the government and were broadcasting those demonstrations live all day long, and at the same time the large demonstrations in support of the government, in support for democracy in Brazil, were mainly ignored. So, I think it’s very important for people to understand that this was created—this idea of that the main problem in Brazil was corruption was pretty much created by corporate media, and now it’s very clear that, with the recent release of this transcript, that the main goal was to actually stop the investigations of corruption and to implement an agenda, a neoliberal agenda, that not only cut important social programs, but changes legislation, as you were mentioning in the beginning of the show.
For instance, in the case of the spending, governmental spending, for education, right after the end of the military dictatorship in Brazil, the new constitution determined that in local and state administrations, 25 percent of the budget is the minimum that has to be applied, invested on education, and the same as the federal—in the federal level. That is, a minimum of 18 percent. And Michel Temer now is proposing to change legislation so the state is not obligated to spend a minimum on education, which will have a huge impact. This is not going to improve the economy. This will create more economic inequality and more instability.
AMY GOODMAN: Last week, The Intercept’s Glenn Greenwald spoke to former President Dilma Rousseff. She expressed some concerns about the situation unfolding in Brazil.
PRESIDENT DILMA ROUSSEFF: [translated] Why wouldn’t I say that it’s the end of democracy? Because today, institutions can be disrupted, but they’re stronger than you think. I’m apprehensive now, because what happens under an illegitimate government? An illegitimate government tries to dress itself in the veil of pseudo-order. It bans protests and freedom of expression, and, above all, shows an enormous willingness to cut social programs.
AMY GOODMAN: So that is, well, the president, the democratically elected president of Brazil, Dilma Rousseff, who has just been ousted, replaced by the vice president, Michel Temer. Maria Luisa Mendonça, go more into who Romero Jucá is, who was then a senator but became a planning minister after Rousseff’s ouster, the one on these tapes is speaking to the former oil executive, Sérgio Machado, and they’re talking about ending the corruption investigations against them.
MARIA LUISA MENDONÇA: Yes, he has been a key player in this conspiracy against President Dilma Rousseff, and that’s very clear now by the transcripts. And he’s a very powerful member of PMDB, which is the political party of Michel Temer. And he’s been in politics forever, and he’s been charged of corruption. And in his history, we had also very horrible stories. In the ’80s, he was the head of FUNAI, which is the infrastructure in Brazil that is the foundation for indigenous people in Brazil. And at that time, he allowed mining companies to enter the Yanomami indigenous communities in the Amazon, and that created huge disasters for those communities. Hundreds of indigenous people were killed in conflicts and also because of diseases from mining exploitation in their territories. So he has a history of, you know, corruption and being a very conservative politician.
But the joke now in Brazil was that he was the planning minister, right? And it’s clear right now that there was a plot to—that the impeachment is actually a plot, as a coup. That’s why we have to call this a coup. And I think a key point that I would like to emphasize is that there is no reason for the impeachment. We cannot say that President Dilma can be impeached just because her popularity may be low at some point in her term or because there is an economic crisis in Brazil. We are not a parliamentary system. We are a presidential system. So, no matter if you like President Dilma or not, if you criticize the government or not, we cannot justify the impeachment. Would be almost like, you know, can you arrest someone in Brazil? Yes. But if the person did not commit any crime, then this is fascism. You cannot impeach the president just because you don’t like her personality.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And let me ask you in terms of the strategy of the Workers’ Party at this point, with these extraordinary developments, what is Dilma Rousseff planning to do now as she’s facing this impeachment? And what about the role of the former president, Lula da Silva?
MARIA LUISA MENDONÇA: Well, the main strategy now is to oppose this government, this interim government, to say that this is not a legitimate government. And the Workers’ Party congressmembers have been saying that very clearly, the senators, the congressmembers in the lower house. And—but what we have been seeing in the last few days is huge demonstrations against the government. I think this is—will increase. The opposition from society, from Brazilian society, will increase, from the part of the academic community, artists, and then the people in general. We have been seeing very large demonstrations against Michel Temer, including a demonstration by his house. The movement of homeless people in the state of São Paulo just had a large demonstration in front of Michel Temer’s house. And he has been called a golpista. So, we have been seeing those types of things, including the new foreign minister, José Serra, who was just in Argentina and was received with protests in Argentina, as well. So I think the international community will need to pay attention, and we will need solidarity from U.S. organizations to call on the Obama administration to support President Dilma Rousseff and the process that elected and re-elected her just over a year ago.
AMY GOODMAN: Very quickly—we have 30 seconds—what has been the Obama administration’s response to what so many are calling a coup in Brazil?
MARIA LUISA MENDONÇA: At the beginning, it was not issuing any very strong statements. But recently, it’s basically confirming that it would support President—the interim president, Michel Temer, which is not a very good sign. We hope that the Obama administration doesn’t do the same thing as we saw in Honduras. So we hope that they don’t make the same mistake, because this will be a very dangerous precedent that can bring instability to the whole region.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you for being with us, Maria Luisa Mendonça, director of Brazil’s Network for Social Justice and Human Rights, also a professor in the International Relations Department at the University of Rio de Janeiro. We’ll link to your piece in The Progressive called “Brazil’s Parliamentary Vote is a Coup.”
Brother Dani, Does such a Government deserve International recognition? Who elected it? How many votes were cast for it? If we speak about Democracy, can we say that what exists in Brazil today is even a semblace of Democracy and yet, America and all the right winged elements of the world have rushed madly ahead and recognized and suuported it! Do you see, have you ever witnessed such hypocrisy in the history of the world? The damaging blows you speak about were inflicted and bandied about by your right wing media in order to fortify and bolster, and ligitimize the intended coup. I would like the brother to tell me if the attempt to introduce social programmes which accessed universal education, proper health, improved housing to those who have been denied these basic human rights privileges for generations and centuries, failed policies? Where are your feelings for the plight of your fellow men who are less fortunate? Do you believe that this is how a just Creator created His world to be?
I think Dani that you missed the point. In the case of Rouseff not the original family name, the political and economic positions of Brazil had deteriorated to a level where she achieved 9% in a popularity poll, plus having rampant corruption both in Petrobras when she was Chair of the Board and when she was President. In the case of Thatcher, she had vastly improved both the political and economic positions of the UK following taking over from the disastrous Callaghan Labour Government. Both however were removed by political manipulations and both were women – which is another factor.
The Left has allowed their agenda to be infiltrated and co-opted by totalitarians and dictatorships. If the Progressive movement limited their efforts to “universal education, access to medical attention, [and] better living conditions” as you suggest, support for your cause would be more widespread and more durable. However, historically, the extreme left has also attacked personal property rights, individual expression, political diversity. Why are Progressives so afraid of political dissent? It would appear that you and others who believe as you say you believe confuse democracy with capitalism. You are anti-democratic and that is your right in a democracy. But when you flail against capitalism you want to take away my right to private property and my right to free expression. That’s anti-humanity. I will protect my “castle” and my right to free expression from attacks every where the threat exist.
Carlyle. I don’t see there is any comparison with the Margaret Thatcher situation. In her case – though she won the vote to remain leader within her party, she received too many damaging blows from her own colleagues in her own cabinet. She was on the way out anyway after a number of failed policies and the fact that the general public was fed up with her antagonistic and rude style of politics. In the end her own cabinet ditched her. There is no comparison with the situation in Brazil where an unelected opposition have taken over.
This is what I have been saying all along in my comments in Havana Times!. There is a war that is being waged by the right winged elements of the world, perhaps instigated and supported by the anti-working class country called America, which is prepared to back the most heinously corrupt right wing parties which oppresses the working class peoples of the world. It is quite evident for all to see now, that it was a coup instigated by those who were under investigation for corruption and the United States of America is lending support to this corrupted concoction in order to roll back the gains of the workers in Brazil and the world. This is why America is so anti- Cuba and so anti- Venezuela, for Cuba and Venezuela are bettering the Social conditions of the ordinary man and woman, by providing them with universal education, access to medical attention, better living conditions. Capitalism is against these moves. Keep the Working Class People poor, illiterate, diseased and living in squalor. I am made of that kind of mettle which compels me to compliment Havana Times for printing this article so that the entire world could now detect and realize the hypocrisy of America when it speaks about Human Rights Abuses when this same country is prepared to back and support any Government, any concoction, any organization which is hell bent on keeping the Working Class peoples of the WORLD in their place. How dare these Working Class People to emerge from the role that they were created to be? “HEWERS OF WOOD AND DRAWERS OF WATER FOR US THE PRIVILEGED, WE THE OLIGARCHS, WE THE RICH AND THE POWERFUL?”
As Maria Luisa Mendonca says, there is an economic crises in Brazil. Whether that is a consequence of the ‘Lulu’ presidency or the Dilma presidency or both, could be debated, but it is undoubtedly a consequence of one or the other or both. Nobody seems to deny that there has been rampant corruption associated with Petrobras with a lot of it during the period that Dilma was Chair of the Board and ‘Lulu’ was President of Brazil. Whereas it might just be possible for neither to be personally involved, they cannot shrug off responsibility for at best they were incompetent.
In politics as in the Jesuit priesthood, the end is said to justify the means. Brazil’s economic position is dire and some form of action is necessary. Dilma clearly was unable or unwilling to take action. Amy Those of Amy Goodman’s ilk at the time failed to protest when the late Margaret Thatcher was ousted in the UK, having been economically successful, although the means were dubious. Such tactics can be practiced by both those of the political right and left. Love and War!